Help Crowd Fund The Jacksonville Book Here
Some hypocrisy leaves me shaking my head, some makes my blood boil, and on the odd occasion it leaves me in stitches with hysterical laughter.
Thankfully this week has supplied the latter of these three.
In the last few days discussions have been held between over 30 of the countries minor political parties. These discussions have been to decide a course of action and response to the Coalition and the Greens move to lock them out of the Senate by altering the way the preference system and flows work when you vote for Senate Members.
Anyone who believes that the Coalition or the Greens would ram a controversial change such as this through parliament without debate in order to benefit other parties is either a fool or has no understanding of politics.
The Greens are in panic mode after seeing the Sex Party pick up an Upper House seat in Victoria and the Animal Justice Party pick up an Upper House seat in NSW. These are both seats that in their arrogance believe should have been theirs.
They do not desire to see this replicated at Federal level.
The Greens would like us all to believe that their decision to rid Australia of the voting system that saw them enter parliament is about increasing democracy.
This is a straight out lie.
There is not one thing about this dodgy backroom deal that makes voting for the Senate more democratic, not a single thing. Despite the completely false statements claiming that voters will now be able to choose where their preferences go, the fact is voters have always had that choice.
Forcing voters to number more boxes above the line is however likely to see the number of donkey votes skyrocket.
Where did that integrity go….??
There are winners and losers in every political change. In this change the losers are all of the minor political parties that the Greens feel threatened by and the Coalition are having problems negotiating with. They are the big losers. How convenient.
So now the minor parties, who the Greens have sought to ensure will not get the benefit of preferences, have decided to direct their preferences away from the Greens or the Coalition.
And my how those piggies are squealing…
All of a sudden all over social media all those Green members and supporters who were complaining about the evils of preference flows and how undemocratic they were have had a sudden change of heart and desperately want them back. Not all of them of course, only the ones beneficial to them.
I attempted to debate democratic process with the staffer of one Victorian Green MP yesterday on Twitter, ironically a Greens MP only in parliament due to Labor preference flows. When I asked him to give me one way the new Senate voting was more democratic I was blocked. I guess that question went in the “Way Too Hard” basket. He was complaining about the notion of the Sex Party and Animal Justice Party not preferencing the Greens.
In doing this deal with the Coalition to ensure these parties never make it Senate the Greens have proven themselves a political enemy, it’s that simple. Changing the electoral system to intentionally wipe out another party is not the act of an ally, it is the act of an enemy. Enemies tend to be put in last place on How To Votes and in Senate preferences. Last is the position most reserve for traitors and if that is whom it is reserved for The Greens fit in that hole nicely.
In NSW the Animal Justice Party had an early taste of Greens attitude when the Parliamentary Inquiry Into Companion Animal Breeding Practices was announced. The Greens smelling a PR opportunity going to waste reportedly sought to ensure that Mark Pearson of the Animal Justice Party was not a part of it despite his major role in it being announced. However despite all of their grovelling to the Coalition they ultimately failed and Pearson found himself on the committee. I note that Pearson was the only member to have been to a puppy factory or a battery hen shed, none of the Greens have had that level of experience, nevertheless they sought to do him out of his earned position. Something I’m sure both Pearson and the AJP will remember not too fondly.
The Sex Party were also left feeling like lovers scorned
In Federal Parliament this term the Greens have three achievements to their credit:
- Screwing over thousands of pensioners
- Helping corporations hide their money to evade tax
- Destroying the Federal futures of minor parties
The fact that the dodgy Senate deal with the Coalition is blowing up in the Greens faces already is a sure sign that acts of political bastardry do have repercussions. Sometimes those repercussions can even prove fatal.
How poetic that would be…
Like Wixxyleaks on Facebook here
Wixxy maaate wot can I say but how true it all is
I`ve been in 100`s of stoushes on Twitter since these pathetic lying #Greensplaing Greens began this bullshit reform
Even today I had them in groups of 4 trying to Greensplain how correct these reforms are but noone could answer why
I play them until they either frazzle or become abusive,then I block them,easy 200 in the last 2 weeks
One has to otherwise they troll you and you have to spend time getting them suspended sheesh
Also Wixxy they don`t believe that we watch the Senate proceedings,what a load of codswallop has gone on there
Then after trying to railroad that first bill through with 40 minutes notice etc which failed miserably Rhiannon then hops up with the newer betterer more modified Democratic reform
Six ABL or one
12 BTL but you can number all
3 mistakes lifted to 5 BTL
How easy is all that mate,it`s clears as mud
If this article hits IA it`ll go ballistic
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdBF53YUEAAeZ55.jpg
Paul Keating called the Senate “Unrepresentative Swill”.
John Howard called it the “house of obstruction”.
ALP and Coalition agreement … and now the Greens joining the club.
… A plague on all your houses !
(with grovelling apologies to William Shakespeare)
According to Anthony Green this is now his byline from 3 minutes ago
First time I`ve heard this Wixxy
Antony Green ?@AntonyGreenABC 3m3 minutes ago
@1_linz Under the new system the only preferences are those filled in by voters themselves. There are no tickets, no party control.
Rubbish, Wixxy. Why are you opposed to seeing voters get the power of preferences back? The current system where the preference flows are determined by parties is simply untenable.
Perhaps you fell for the scare campaign being peddled by some micro-party preference wheeler-dealers about the supposed “Liberal majority” that would entrench? Antony Green has completely debunked that analysis:
http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2016/02/would-electoral-reform-deliver-the-coalition-a-senate-majority-at-a-double-dissolution.html
Or are you just drinking the Labor kool-aid on the issue – oh wait, this exact reform (OPV above and below the line, GVTs abolished) was Labor’s submission to the committee back in 2014!
Just who are the hypocrites here?
You tell me how a voter doesn’t have control over their preferences under the current system?
“Power of the preferences” is something we already have, the only power this brings back is “power of the donkey”… No wonder it’s the asses pushing for it
Hey, great post BTW they (Liberals)are trying to rule in 4 yr terms for Qld, can you imagine another year of C Newman I can’t, anyway I’m smoker on low income yet I’ll be voting for the party thats wants to raise the price further as the other mob are well just criminals PLEASE Put LNP Last this year,
To which party did the Wixxyleaks give their preferences in the last Federal election.
Green voter. Against the senate voting changes. Can’t believe the Greens have sold their soul and made a deal with the devil.
Section 7 of the Australian Constitution says:
“The Senate shall be composed of senators for each State, directly chosen by the people of the State”
That makes the whole above the line with the Group Voting Ticket UNCONSTITUTIONAL as Political Parties are controlling the vote for the senate and NOT the people.
Senate voting reform will allow:
* Optional preferential voting above the line (1 to at least 6) to replace group voting tickets, and;
* Optional preferential voting BELOW the line (1 to at least 12).
Just as it was intended, gives the power back to the voter… do you have a problem with being in control of where your vote goes, instead of a politician or a political party, and if they only vote 1 above the line it is still be counted… give people some credit, AND the act is this actually makes it LESS likely for people to make donkey votes. FACT is you can decide NOT to vote for either of the LNP or ALP… they an be left out of the vote altogether… and this is upsetting the ALP as they know people are NOT happy with them and they are likely to be the loser out of this!
This isn’t being rushed through there was a public inquiry for over a year and a half, that had 21 consultation around the country, and a consensus recommendation that Labor was a part of came out of that support senate reform.
Bob Brown from 2013
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/how-to-reform-senate-voting-in-one-easy-step-20130910-2ti5a.html
Here is an ALP submission arguing for optional preferential voting above and below the line. And for making registration of microparties harder.
http://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=fa246296-d884-4e5a-932d-03d898c5a78e&subId=251860
INSTEAD of running this childish fear campaign via one source or another, the author is ALP… they better start working on there policies, look at what they have done to the most vulnerable in our society and start being an opposition, instead of the LNP lap dog.
https://www.facebook.com/australianwelfarenews/photos/pb.1415019052101458.-2207520000.1456391848./1670944733175554/?type=3&theater
Greens lost me
This is a Greens/Liberal deal
Labor has released several policies well ahead of the normal time in an election cycle.
The Lap Dog is Di Natale, handing the Senate to the Coalition with a Green ribbon on it
I can’t remember actually, I think it was an independent
Yes, I was going to vote Green this year,vas I cannot in all conscience vote Labor given their Asylum Seeker policy, now I will most certainly not vote Greens…… Doesn’t leave me with much!
Not being rushed through… That’s why there has been no debate in the House Of Reps I guess
The fact is, whatever spin you put on it we already have to power to choose where our preferences go, I know many people who always vote below the line
Most voters vote for the party they have trust in, are you suggesting that people trust them with making decisions regarding national security, tax, and living standards but not trust them to choose who they’d rather work with? That would seem like a weak argument
A public inquiry with selected participants is proof of nothing, the Liberals have used that method for years
At least I’m open about being Labor, I don’t hide it like most Green commentators
Peter on March 8, 2016
Yes I understand there Peter
I came out as Labor in 72`and never hidden it since
Could you tell?
I reckon I had a good hunch
> You tell me how a voter doesn’t have control over their preferences under the current system?
Because nearly all voters will vote above-the-line, handing over their preference decisions to the party they put a 1 in the box next to.
Under our current system, expressing a full preference order below the line is too complicated a task for most voters, especially when you have ballots the size of tablecloths that require magnifying glasses to read properly.
This reform will allow voters to express a preference order of THEIR choosing above the line and ALSO to number fewer boxes below the line (optional preferential), if that is what they choose to do.
The scourge of the undemocratic (and probably unconstitutional) Group Voting Tickets will finally be history.
Labor clearly recognised the undemocratic nature of Group Voting Tickets when it proposed to abolish them in its 2014 submission to the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters. It is a shame Labor chose to sideline Gary Gray’s very salient contributions to the discussion (an MP who I did not often agree with) in favour of scaremongering about the so-called “dirty deals” of the Greens (shocking hypocrisy from Labor, given its penchant for doing actual dirty deals with the Liberals on metadata retention, offshore detention, jail for journos and so on).
Rubbish like this is why I let my paid membership of the Labor Party expire at the end of last year.
Are you the Labor guy I stood with once handing out leaflets at Pre Poll ?
If so this is a clear explanation for your anti Greens rant !
I’ve stood with lots of people at lots of pre polls
Let’s see if you’re up to the challenge that no other Green has been able to manage…
Tell us one way the Greens/Coalition deal makes the voting process more democratic as they claim, I’m only after one but it’s tougher than finding the holy grail…
Fail
Voting above or below the line is a choice, part of the choices one has in a democratic process.
You can make your preferences count right down to the very last candidate under the current system. It does not get more democratic than that
Actually I do remember you, I put your corflutes out virtually every morning at Blacktown
You were the guy who rocked up calling out loudly about corruption yet couldn’t explain why the Greens gave Eddie Obeid and Joe Tripodi their preferences…
@Peter 9/3/16, you took the words right out of my keyboard. Perhaps it would also behove voters to do the research on Senate candidates if they’re voting below the line, then you can make a decision where you put them when you vote. All I can say is I am very thankful that Ricky Muir, Glen Lazarus and some of the other micro party candidates did win seats in the Senate. They have saved this country from some of the worst Liars legislation ever. I dread to think what state we’d have been in without them.
Wixxy, you’re discrediting yourself and I am very disappointed. Please stop it.
The bit where you claim what the Greens are saying is a “straight out lie”? You’re either woefully misinformed or being wilfully dishonest.
The Greens have had this reform policy in place for years, this is not a panic reaction like you claim.
You then make your own bareface lie that “there is not one thing that makes this democratic”. Wixxy, did you type that with a straight face? Choosing exactly where your vote goes is the DEFINITION of democracy, it couldn’t be any more democratic than that. Whether you like it or not there is nothing democratic about a group voting ticket – even if the party let their own membership vote to decide preferences, which none of the majors do (I think only the Democrats and Pirate Party do), it’s not democratic for any of the non-members. There is nothing whatsoever democratic about having your vote go to a party you’ve never heard of because of a deal made by people you’ve never heard of in the back room of a party who you’re probably not even a member of.
Yes, it is democratic and you have got to know that. Wixxy, I am disappoint.
The author of this mis-leading diatribe either belongs to a micro party afraid of losing his senate spot or a Labor supporter trying to capture some Greens votes back. These changes are inevitable , if not now then further down the track because they are INDEED more democratic.
Blind Freddy can see that handing the preference selection back to the voter above the line is much more democraatic.
Selecting 6 above the line is pretty much the practical limit for a meaningful result.
De Natale is the Meg Lees of the Greens. Knew he would sell out the moment he was made leader.
Hi Peter, Greens voter here.
I like most of what you write, although I tend to disagree with your anti-Greens sentiments of course.
“Forcing voters to number more boxes above the line is however likely to see the number of donkey votes skyrocket.”
“Tell us one way the Greens/Coalition deal makes the voting process more democratic as they claim, I’m only after one but it’s tougher than finding the holy grail…”
The voting process becomes more democratic because the votes that you choose to place go to the parties that you want to vote for and no-one else. If I’ve lost faith in both major parties and the Greens for example, I vote for up to 6 minors and know that my vote isn’t helping any of the parties I don’t want to vote for. Similarly, if I hate right-wing parties, I can vote for only the left wing parties and know that my vote won’t end up in a right wing camp due to dodgy preference deals.
Huh. My previous comment seems to have disappeared. I was only pointing out clear dishonesty, and the fact that I was disappointed Wixxy chose to behave that way..
@Peter “Tell us one way the Greens/Coalition deal makes the voting process more democratic as they claim, I’m only after one but it’s tougher than finding the holy grail…”
I dunno why you’re having any trouble, the answer is easy. Choosing where your votes go is the definition of democracy, and there’s nothing democratic about your vote going to a party you’ve never heard of because of a backroom deal made by people you’ve never met in a party in which you are most likely not a member.
I did not claim it was a panic reaction, not once. In fact I believe the opposite, I think it was a carefully conceived plan to wipe out their minor party former colleagues
The current system allowed voters to number every candidate in whatever order they liked, choosing their own preferences. What is more democratic than that?
Greens claiming that this sell out makes the process more democratic when it doesn’t is what some would refer to as an untruth, but I would call a blatant lie
So numbering above a line or below it makes it more democratic?
The Greens expect honesty from every party but their own
If a voter wants to choose where the preference go currently they vote below the line. There they can choose where their preferences go, totally democratic
Not disappeared, due to the level of spam and abusive comment I get I have to approve each comment.
However at some point I have to sleep or go to work and I can’t moderate then
Good article Peter (once again). From past experience though, I can tell you that it’s a waste of time putting facts in front of the Greens. When they sided with the liberals against the pensioners and helped the Liberals break an election promise (so much for political Honesty by both parties) I tried by facts to show how many people it would hurt, but none of them would listen and they were pretty nasty. One of them actually said that the fate of younger people had been decided by the greed of the current pensioners. In truth, The Greens party are about as unrepresentative as the Nationals and thy have now backed the Liberals again to get rid of democracy. I hope they go the way of all bad political parties. Down the drain. I hope the Labor party decide to preference against them across the board.
I literally have never read a more ignorant article than this. What a load of trash. If you can’t add intelligently to the debate then please stop writing.
Also, when you say ‘donkey vote’, I think you mean ‘informal vote’? Donkey voting is something completely different.
Fair enough on the moderated comments, Peter.
It does seem to be you’re being disingenuous about disregarding the GVT, and the fact the vast majority of voters go above the line makes that fact paramount. The provision of a below the line option still doesn’t make the GVT itself any less undemocratic and is hamstrung by currently having to number every box for a below the line vote. As we saw in the last Federal election that was becoming unmanageable.
The change forces the voter to make their own picks above the line, but also makes below the line much, much easier. To be honest I’m not completely happy with this specific implementation, and the Liberals are certainly playing for a monopoly, but the Greens have no more interest in an LNP majority than the rest of us.
Please keep in mind, I am actually a member of a micro party and if I suspected unfair disenfranchisement I’d be up in arms.
Yet another ignorant response that does not address the major points of answer the million dollar question of how the Greens jumping into bed with the Coalition makes the process more democratic
The question is: where on the ballot paper are the current preference flows made evident? Are they made apparent on the trash that is handed out when we run the polling booth gauntlet? Not that I’ve ever seen…
Knowing that the majority of voters don’t care to wade through distributing 50+ preferences themselves, the obscured preference flows are hardly democratic. I would hazard a guess that a good proportion of voters don’t understand how preferences work.
As someone who has always numbered below the line I will be thankful of the opportunity to place votes above the line that stop when and where I want them to stop. The Libs and Labs wont ever get another preference from me.
Given that big business can still buy our politicians through donations that don’t have to be declared until well after the election, arguments over the “democraticness” of two modes of voters making a choice about which unrepresentative politician will be not representing us seems ridiculous.
Wixxy, when the Greens vote with the coalition as often as the ALP does I’ll agree with you. And I’ll be voting Green and preferencing all left wing parties, leaving out all right wing idiots and all religious freaks. And I still love ya 🙂
And the largest corporate donation in Australia’s history was made to the Greens lets not forget
And it wasn’t a mining company.
And the Greens disclosed that donation a year sooner than they needed to, as they have a 3 month limit set internally. I doubt there were any property deals or mining rights pushed through as a result of the donation, given that it was inspired by the threat of climate change…
http://greens.org.au/no-deal
This such bloody codswallop. Get your head out of your ass Wixxy. The way this is more democratic is that the UNdemocratic option (group tickets) is GONE. Yes everyone always “had the choice” but not enough people chose it and the lazy liberalites (and most others)vote 1 above the line. Feeding the backroom preference deals. This used to benefit liberals most, but microparties popped up like wildfire and lo and behold ended up “gaming the sytem” the same way the libs did. So yes, THAT is why the Libs want it changd, but it’s been Greens policy for more than 10 years so get your bloody hand off it mate.
I raised Greens LNP preferencing in certain seats with the Greens National Office. Not so apparently. No negotiations happen before the election is called I was told.
Yep and Father Christmas is real…………..
The fact is you don’t need to do a deal to preference the Libs ahead of Labor, saying there is no deal means absolutely nothing.
Di Natale will not guarantee Greens are preferencing Labor ahead of Libs, he will only say he hasn’t done a deal…
It is a play on words to suck in the gullible
Democracy is about having the choice, not how many chose to take it.
If it does not make the process more democratic don’t say it does, it’s a simple concept that appears to be lost on many.
It is a lie.
If they want to claim it makes choosing preferences simpler, than that may be a fair claim, however claiming it is more democratic is completely false.
And don’t complain when those you don’t want to get preference flows say they won’t give you theirs, that is just pathetic
You don’t think politicians travel?
Sarah Hanson Young has overspent her travel allowance, she has spent more than any other MP according to parliament records, more than Bronwyn Bishop even
And for that climate change inspired donation they shut down the ETS
Sarah Hanson Young is really Barnacle Joyce in drag.
All froth and no substance (or brains).
Peter on March 9, 2016
Sarah Hanson Young 12th Oct 2015 Mammamia article written by her
Refugees only accept the dangers of the ocean voyage because there is no other way to safety. We need to work with the UN to set up processing centres in Indonesia and Malaysia and then, when we know who needs protection and who doesn’t, we take those in need and send the others home.
Can anyone remember Greens calling on the High Court to stop Julia Gillard doing this?
Vividly
Hey…do any of u remember, Abbott on the radio, the morning of the Fed election. .begging everyone to not vote for the micro parties., as its a wasted vote ..well now we know why…in saying that…numbering below the line is a very big effort…99..
Its easy to stuff it up, and give up and just vote above…..do u guys really think its fair that the “preference whisperer “, gets paid thousands, to get a party in??? As i recall the shooters and the Christian parties worked with him…and look how well they do in the states…proud greens..